bjoernvold.com

Woodguy2 wrote:

proyvind wrote:
What? Totally NO WAY! The idea of the association is for it to support the project, and since this is a community project, it simply doesn't own it, nor does ROSA own the association either for that matter either.
So with this, those who does the actual work on the distribution, gets to do this properly without corporate soap operas etc. getting in the way nor kill it.

The association is intended to be an independent entity, which while supports the project with infrastructure etc., does not own nor govern the project.
'If the association were to do so, then it would be no better oiff than the company and it's troubles over the years, it would actually be even worse;
they have no previous involvement in the distribution, no proper leadership or businiss competence nor experience which you'd at least would expect for the management of a company to have.

There is no sane reasons for that any association related group to have any greater say in matter they're neither involved in nor even cares about to conduct any discussions and decission making outside of it.

Personally I am what's left from a staff of >30 developers who worked full time on the distribution for the previous release, where *every* responsibility beyond purely packaging has been left for me to take on, which is a situation that's been rather crappy for what all the crap and fsckups that's been going.
If I hadn't stuck around and taken some initiative ad responsibility that noonne else did, the project would've been long dead by now, ad even despite that I've repeatedly asked people from associatio to take responsibility for tasks and try help supporting, they've never done a single thing of it so far.
You might get the idea of why I am not so pleased with people who's never even contributed or been of any help to the distribution whatsoever,now expecting to get to get special privilegies, with the idea of that they're now my boss...

If people are unable to see what's wrong with this, then I really dunno what to say..

So, what it boils down to, it is your distro, Per, and the association is only there to provide you with toys to play with. Nice deal if you can find one, I suppose. Under that premise, yes, I see a BIG problem using the OpenMandriva name for the distro. I also see a big problem with getting much community support for it. Or much financial support. But hey, you obviously know what's best. I supported Mandriva with Powerpak subscriptions for years, but no way will I support this!

If you are unable to see what's wrong with this, then I really don't know what to say...

Jean Parpaillon, 13 April 2012 wrote: Hi,
(I don't have the time to register a new address on the mailists, but I
want to speak as member of the Open Source Community, not as a Mandriva
employee)

I totally agree with Per Oyvind point of view.
It is _huge_ mistake to believe that Mandriva company can take a
decision for Mandriva community. Believing that is playing a game
without knowing the rules. The rules are those of the open source world,
of the open world, of the today world. Mandriva company, like _every
other company, have passed through good and bad time, but I can say one
thing 100% sure: it would not be there without 100s of contributors.

As I have said to one of you some month ago, I see only one issue which
concerns the community and not the company: the community must provide
quickly one or several concrete projects for managing itself and without
waiting for company management bullshit. With such concrete project, if
the company refuse to give the key (build system, mandriva.org
domain, ...) to one of these project, _only then_ contributors can leave
the ship without regret. So, I think proposal should include:
- an organization (who represent what, how decisions are taken, like
every other organization: Debian, LibreOffice, Mozilla, etc)
- a long term vision and a Vision for the community (= a Manifest)
- how the project can federate the today sparsed sub-community of
Mandriva
- any other ?

So, I insist: if the question, for the company, is to know if we need
the community, this is just _wrong_, _arrogant_ and _destructing_.
The question must be: what is the best way of establishing a trustful,
hence fruitful relation between community and company ?

Every day passing is destroying this relation, and the company will be
destroyed with it.

Jean

proyvind wrote:Personally I am what's left from a staff of >30 developers who worked full time on the distribution for the previous release, where *every* responsibility beyond purely packaging has been left for me to take on

viking60 wrote:No need to fork: Rosa and Mageia are already finished.
People are to busy digging trenches and shooting at each other so I do not have all that high hopes for OMA. To many people who know it all and have the only valid opinion....

I have nothing against the Mandriva community and you are not the only one that has contributed over the years:
http://forum.mandriva.com/no/
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/Urpmi
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/Kategori:System
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/Kategori:Konfigurasjon
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/Installer_o ... rogramvare
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/Kontrollsenter
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/index.php?t ... on=history

And your example on how to act within a community and how to regard it may be perfect to you but I will not necessarily follow neither your advice nor your example in this matter.

I get that you regard Mandriva as your baby and that you feel entitled (I even agree that you should be ) given your longtime contribution....The problem is that proyvind feels exactly the same. (Are you sure that you two are not related?)

Woodguy2 had almost convinced me before you forced me back to the trenches again:

The best thing for Mandriva would be that all hands worked on the distro - My opinion. The best thing for Mandriva is that provind is not working on Mandriva and basically shuts up - your opinion - shared by the association.
Can we disagree on that?
If not:

Where exactly is Tombstone? So we can have our duel at dawn.....

PS: And I do encourage people to continue to disagree with me - I respect it and find total agreement utterly boring... (personal advice can be left out of it though)

Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.
   
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
   
3. Person B attacks position Y.
   
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

viking60, 5 April wrote:

proyvind wrote:Yeah, exactly, and the rebranding work really needs to be done ASAP, especially since Charles is pretty much giving me a takedown notice of any new release which it hasn't been done for already...

Ah even rolf might accept that
(But if you act like Louis 16 then I am pretty sure that he still is happy with a French revolution )

The best thing for Mandriva would be that all hands worked on the distro - My opinion. The best thing for Mandriva is that provind is not working on Mandriva and basically shuts up - your opinion - shared by the association.

As I have said to one of you some month ago, I see only one issue which
concerns the community and not the company: the community must provide
quickly one or several concrete projects for managing itself and without
waiting for company management bullshit. With such concrete project, if
the company refuse to give the key (build system, mandriva.org
domain, ...) to one of these project, _only then_ contributors can leave
the ship without regret. So, I think proposal should include:
- an organization (who represent what, how decisions are taken, like
every other organization: Debian, LibreOffice, Mozilla, etc)
- a long term vision and a Vision for the community (= a Manifest)
- how the project can federate the today sparsed sub-community of
Mandriva
- any other ?