OpenMandriva

[Woodguy2]

Not trying either to push or condemn democracy(it rarely exists anyway), nor to excuse lack of disclosure or excepting of the vote. Mandriva never was known for communication, hoped OMA would be better, and so far I think it is somewhat, not perfect, but hopefully it will improve. Anyway, nuff of that!

As for getting kicked off the forum, I was also. Just tell it you forgot your password.. reset it and all was well for me. For changing software mid stream, it didn't go to badly, overall.

[proyvind]

As the association has taken down old cooker list and set up a new one censoring me, I'm pointing you to the archives of a still active list which they don't have control of and therefore not able to censor me:

https://ml.mandriva.com/wws/arc/maintai ... 00000.html


For claiming to be democratic, censorship seems quite a bit at conflict with this..

[jofazepa]

What ever else you can say about the decision, They did tell us in advance what they were going to do...

by João Patrício

In the end the most voted on submissions will be placed for consideration by the administration of the Association, which will vote on the final proposal.

So the winner and the runner up seem to have been ignored - can anyone explain this?

They took your advice. They flipped a coin.

Not really.

First, since the beginning of the process we stated that the final choice would be taken by the OMA.

I can explain in a simple way a process that was not so simple, and took some discussion, why the 2 most voted where not chosen. :-)

This came from discussion prior to final internal voting (time of vote I was not there, but started the discussion on OMA channels and then picked the opinions of the ones that loose time giving their opinions):

The second most voted had the letters "OM" as logo that will become a problem if we wanted a more "universal symbol", in that case, all the logos with that were ditched. Per also stated that before, that any logo (I'm talking of the 250x250 square ones) to "glued to OpenMandriva" would with difficulty be included in the distribution. Also it would be hard to apply it to the "start" button, etc. In conclusion, having a symbol based on the O M letters was not consensual.

In the case of the most voted it was put in a secondary mainly because of the "star", internal voting managed to put forward that having the same symbol of Mandriva SA and also Mandriva in the name would lead to a harder branding politics and also more confusion, that we wanted to avoid. So, it was not that consensual.

We must not forget that the "branding" selected is to Association but the font/design/logo will be used for the association linux project, because of image consistency.

I can tell you also that the internal voting results gave a tie between two logos. And the choice was made by choosing the community most voted from those.

If there were errors? of course, I have balls to assume mine, hope the rest has the balls to assume theirs. I'm humble enough for it. Nothing is perfect, but with good will and collaboration things will move forward, I believe.

Regarding the name issue, I'm was working to put a way that was consensual for name choice. We have one bottleneck, so, the natural thing to happen is adopt a majority opinion under OMA for the rules to be applied.

Has it has been told we could take all decision and present them to you, quite fast, with some bodys on the way of the process. Our choice was to give voice to community and then using that as a "strong position" to take some decisions. OMA is the Association that represents the community, that's why community members that are contributors in any form can apply to be members and run for council elections. Council is not generated by spontaneous breeding, was voted from the members, and the members were the contributors that had will to be members, nobody was forced. But talk is easy, be involved and work is quite more difficult.

Nothing more to say on this issue. All the stories have several versions, and facts are always seen and interpreted by the eyes of whom sees them.

Sorry for my English.

ps. As I said before, if you all want more information, please contact. I'm please to give the necessary information and have some open conversations with you all. e-mail/xmpp: jofazepa@gmail.com

best to all.

[jkerr82508]

All the stories have several versions, and facts are always seen and interpreted by the eyes of whom sees them.

That is very true. It's unfortunate that you seem to be almost alone in realising that it is. OMA needs more people like you.

Jim

[dedanna1029]

So, what it boils down to, it is your distro, Per, and the association is only there to provide you with toys to play with. Nice deal if you can find one, I suppose. Under that premise, yes, I see a BIG problem using the OpenMandriva name for the distro. I also see a big problem with getting much community support for it. Or much financial support. But hey, you obviously know what's best. I supported Mandriva with Powerpak subscriptions for years, but no way will I support this!

If you are unable to see what's wrong with this, then I really don't know what to say...

I CONSIDER IT TO BE HIS DISTRO. HE WROTE AND PUT TOGETHER THE DAMN DISTRO WITH VERY LITTLE OR NO HELP FOR YOU TO HAVE AN "ASSOCIATION" WITH (HELL, YOU CAN'T EVEN COME UP WITH A FSCKING NAME FOR IT), AND IF YOU PEOPLE CAN'T RECOGNIZE THAT, THEN YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR WHOLE DAMN THING YOU CONSIDER AN "ASSOCIATION" AND SHOVE IT! WTF ARE YOU GONNA ASSOCIATE, YOUR THUMBS UP YOUR ASSES???

No wonder people (including Per) wonder WHY people went to Mageia, and will never look back. Regardless of how it was created, at least over there, there's a DISTRO, there's PEACE, and NO DRAMA. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO LIVE THAT WAY.

Edit: All caps intended. I don't care how loud I have to scream at IDIOTS. Like YOU are gonna get FINANCIAL SUPPORT and COMMUNITY SUPPORT for something that doesn't even exist. GROW UP.

[ashledombos]

All the stories have several versions, and facts are always seen and interpreted by the eyes of whom sees them.

That is very true. It's unfortunate that you seem to be almost alone in realising that it is. OMA needs more people like you.

Jim

I agree

[Woodguy2]

Thanks jofazepa, for the explanation. That has been my point all along... that there was an explanation!

Jim, I also agree with you.

Dedanna, What else can one say but... wow!

[dedanna1029]

It's ALL true, and YOU KNOW IT.

Here is what I am seriously going to do, and then as of the end of this post, be out of this thread. I'm done trying to get through to people who have NO clue of ANYTHING.

When I get back to the states, other than taking care of my mum through her surgery (I will have to work around that; she will be immobile), my other #1 priority will seriously be finding a sponsor for Per's fork, for HIS DISTRO, one that will give him the respect and pay he's due for it. Don't you doubt me for a second. It may take time, but I will find someone. I'm quite resourceful.

The end, good-bye to all the Mandriva-type crap, to include the notion of a stupid "association" modelled after the same crap that brought Mandriva down in the end. There will be no such thing in my life, henceforth, as an "OpenMandriva" or anything associated with it. You want to talk ? You haven't seen that yet. You've just now declared war.

[Woodguy2]

...
The end, good-bye to all the Mandriva-type crap, to include the notion of a stupid "association" modelled after the same crap that brought Mandriva down in the end. There will be no such thing in my life, henceforth, as an "OpenMandriva" or anything associated with it. You want to talk ? You haven't seen that yet. You've just now declared war.

One can only hope you mean it THIS time! Sorry, but I have seen enough of that vitriol over the last couple of years.

[viking60]

Thanks for the explanation !

If there were errors? of course, I have balls to assume mine, hope the rest has the balls to assume theirs.

Time to show your cojones then:

What errors?

And where are my manners: welcome ashledombos!
Edit:
Good to see that everybody is passionate about this distro - but remember to take the ball not the man (as in European football not American...)

[viking60]

Before I go on I will point out that the majority in here seems to support OMA and the council. And I sure want the distro to see the day of light too.
But like OMA I am now going to ignore the majority in here and point out what I consider critical and important:

1 The lack of openness Because: "One man - one vote" is widely considered to be proper democracy. If you claim that high-ground, then it is naturally expected an explanation of why the known majority has been ignored or rejected. At least I would expect that from an Association that IS the community. Here the decision was taken behind closed doors and the chosen face was presented on the website. The result of the called for vote was presented with a series of numbers representing the pictures on another site. It was presented like this: #18 (SQ018) 74 37.00% #21 (SQ021) 73 36.50% #19 (SQ019) 54 27.00% Without some research it was not possible to identify the winner of the called for vote on the Openmandriva site. (Not even Jkerr knew what logo had been favored by the community and then the information is bad...) Out of respect for the hard working - well meaning guys that had gotten criteria s - up front - from the association - and out of respect for the community, it should not be necessary to "smoke out" an explanation. It should have been given as a reflex, in a place where you do not have to log in! For example in the same place where the chosen face was presented. Something like this: This face won the vote of the community: but we did not want the stars. This came in second place:..... Image here And this is the one we chose Image here

2 It is no good idea to call for a vote where you reserve the right to alter the majority decisions. You ended up with ignoring the majority of the community anyway - that is a fact (If you consider the ones that voted to be the community). Not one of those opinions that everyone is entitled too etc... Some harder work on the spec, maybe ("no stars are allowed even if they are other colors than yellow")And then simply respect the result of the voting after that. But I have no idea if these are among the errors that OMA have the "balls to assume" or if they are even recognized as errors. So if they are on the todo list then I am a warm and cuddly puppy accepting that everybody is entitled to mistakes. I would even encourage those who make mistakes to continue making them because that means that they are proactive and we like people who get things done. Nothing done = no mistakes - I know that! By the looks of it though; they seem to be wanting to repeat the procedure of the logo with the name, and if that is the case then I certainly am opposed. . And I just might mention it On the other hand woodguy Jkerr and rolf might want to carefully whisper some well meant words of support so I guess it will stay fairly balanced. I do see that criticism can have the effect that the doors will get even more closed - simply to avoid it. That is why I also would agree with Jkerr and ashledombas: OMA needs those people with balls.....

[Woodguy2]

Viking60, I by no means totally disagree with you. Things could/should have been handled better. In my opinion, non qualifying entries should have been eliminated before the vote, and then the vote should have been accepted, period. But remember, this is a new organization, hopefully they will learn from their mistakes... that remains to be seen. Open discussion should only help that. I do agree, that it could drive things further behind closed doors, but I don't see another/better alternative.

Edit: Also I would not be surprised if "qualifying entries" has been somewhat a moving target!

OMA are you listening?

Also just a couple of observations....

1. It took Mageia 9 months from creation(or at least announcement) to release Mageia 1.

2. Mageia 1 was really Mandriva 2010.1 or 2010.2 warmed over, basically to get the infrastructure tested and operational!

3. Mageia did not have to contend with "guidance" from Mandriva SA or Rosa! Nor dance around the legal issues with name/logo rights, etc.

With the OMA really just being legally created, what? December 2012? I think we need to give them time, guidance, help, and the occasional benefit of the doubt. They are fighting a much more uphill battle than Mageia did, IMHO. I am optimistic that they mean well, and will resolve these bumps! Of course I have been wrong before