Microsoft in email warrant case against US government

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Panther96
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Microsoft in email warrant case against US government

Postby Panther96 » 16 Dec 2014, 00:10

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... anies-join


Tech and media companies, privacy groups and leading computer scientists all filed legal briefs on Monday backing Microsoft in a case against the US government it claims is “fundamental to the future of global technology”.

Microsoft is challenging a government order to hand over emails held on servers at its datacenter in Dublin, Ireland. The company has lost twice in court but is challenging the order in the US court of appeals for the second circuit in New York.

Technology companies including Apple, Amazon, Cisco, eBay and Verizon all filed in support of Microsoft. As have two of the US’s largest business organizations, the US Chamber of Commerce and the National Association of Manufacturers, as well as media organisations including ABC, CNN, Fox News and the Guardian.

The unusual level of cooperation among often fiercely competitive organisations comes as privacy advocates argue the US is overreaching its authority in a manner that will set a dangerous precedent for government access to online information across the world.

“We believe that when one government wants to obtain email that is stored in another country, it needs to do so in a manner that respects existing domestic and international laws. In contrast, the US government’s unilateral use of a search warrant to reach email in another country puts both fundamental privacy rights and cordial international relations at risk,” Brad Smith, Microsoft’s general counsel, said in a blog post.

At a press conference organised by Microsoft, Victoria Espinel, president and chief executive of the software industry trade group BSA (The Software Alliance), said: “We need to think carefully about the precedent that could be set here.”

She said that allowing the US government to use the US courts to access emails stored in Ireland would allow other governments to make similar moves and demand access to information stored in the US. Such a move would damage trust in the technology sector, reduce productivity worldwide and harm privacy, she said.
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News organisations, including the Guardian, have expressed concern that a victory for the US would allow Washington to go after information stored by newsrooms in the cloud. “We have stuff governments around the world want. This case may not be about digital journalism but the next case will be,” said Bruce Brown, executive director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.

The case centres on a drug investigation currently being conducted by US authorities. Smith said the legal system already had practices in place for international crime investigations and that using the US courts to reach documents stored overseas was unnecessary and dangerous. He said in most cases Ireland already handed over documents to the US when asked through its own courts.

“The US has well-established treaties with countries around the world that allow them to seek the information they need while ensuring that citizens of other countries retain the privacy protections offered by their own laws and courts. And there’s ample opportunity for work to modernise these agreements further,” he said.


Impressive that so many organizations and corporations are standing behind Microsoft on this. Do you guys think the US government will back down on this one, considered its corporate powerhouses standing up against them this time?

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Snorkasaurus
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Re: Microsoft in email warrant case against US government

Postby Snorkasaurus » 16 Dec 2014, 00:45

Panther96 wrote:Impressive that so many organizations and corporations are standing behind Microsoft on this. Do you guys think the US government will back down on this one, considered its corporate powerhouses standing up against them this time?

To be honest, I have a hard time not seeing this as a public relations stunt by these companies to restore faith in them after being held up to the light as greedy tramps who care more about their dollar than our security and privacy.

As for the US gov't... well they would only back down for money - and guess who's got it.

S.

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Re: Microsoft in email warrant case against US government

Postby Panther96 » 16 Dec 2014, 00:52

True true, thats what I thought at first, BUT, think about their botom lines. Microsoft is already losing business (at least with their Cloud and server services) because people don't trust US hosted data anymore. Microsoft, as well any other company, would not support a government action that would decrease their profit margins by a dollar. The NSA's bullshit is starting to go against their (as well as any other company providing the same solutions based in the US) bottom line, and thats a big no no. If these companies will fight tooth and nail against taxes, the EPA, affirmitive action, unions, and such and such whats going to make it any different now that the imperialistic class (for once) is threatening their profits? Multinational corporations see no value in anything outside of $$$$$$$ after all.

I'm cautiously hopeful on this one.

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Re: Microsoft in email warrant case against US government

Postby Snorkasaurus » 16 Dec 2014, 01:54

Panther96 wrote:True true, thats what I thought at first, BUT, think about their botom lines. Microsoft is already losing business (at least with their Cloud and server services) because people don't trust US hosted data anymore. Microsoft, as well any other company, would not support a government action that would decrease their profit margins by a dollar.

Exactly... I would assume that when Microsoft was asked for the data they had a meeting to discuss it, and someone said "Hey, this is the perfect opportunity to make the pinhead users believe that we care about their privacy". They were already looking for a way to restore their turd-smeared image and this is it. Not that they actually care about anyone's privacy, just that fighting for something like this really makes them look like the good guys.

As for other large companies supporting Microshaft, I can totally picture them at their own meetings saying "Hey, this is perfect, we're not even in trouble with the gov't and we can use this to make it look like we care about privacy... cool!".

Panther96 wrote:I'm cautiously hopeful on this one.

I am trying to be "cautiously hopeful" but my "relentless cynicism" is getting in the way. :-)

S.

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Re: Microsoft in email warrant case against US government

Postby viking60 » 16 Dec 2014, 07:00

Interesting news.

Microsoft and all American tech companies are loosing business over this. That court has made a colossal blunder in terms of hurting US interests abroad (aka world wide).

Microsoft servers cannot be trusted anywhere in the world - that is the message as it is read by "foreigners" (you know; those guys it is OK to spy upon).

European and African customers are gathered on Microsofts servers in Irland and Holland.

As it is; all Microsoft servers are under US control. I do not think that is even legal according to european laws.

So MS is loosing money and the NSA is loosing opportunities to spy - I think this appeal has a good chance.

I do not think the world will trust Microsoft, Apple, Facebook or Google servers again though. They will be used for trivial social purposes and not important data - anymore.
Office 365 cannot be sold as a serious business solution as long as the data do not even "belong" to the countries of the companies who put them there.

That damage has been done already - by the looks of it.

...And that does probably anoy the NSA the most....
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Re: Microsoft in email warrant case against US government

Postby dedanna1029 » 28 Dec 2014, 16:47

Remembering back when the stories of the NSA seriously broke thanks to Greenwald, et. al, I said on this forum somewhere (too far back to be able to look now; certainly before Snorkasaurus's and Panther's time here), that the US government, in particular the NSA, FBI, and CIA were breaking international law spying on those in other countries, in particular their government officials. They have indeed crossed the line, as well as crossed international borders and waters to do so.

I hate to say I told you so, but...

They would not bring a suit like this about if they didn't have basis for it, regardless their motives.

As well, regardless their motives, it's a good thing to happen, although I find Verizon being very hypocritical in joining in. They are the ones who have willingly turned in everything, not just emails, on everyone from the get-go of it all.

Funny, I didn't see Google on that list, or did I just miss them?

IF this suit is won, it will lose the US a lot of money, not that enough money isn't being lost over China taking us over anyway. Obama has quite enough class-action suits against him filed by our own citizens over all this as well.

I blame Sent. Dianne Feinstein the most though. She's a spear-header of NSA spying programs, John Kerry's a warmongerer, so between the two, Obama's allowed himself to be brainwashed plenty for it.

You see, they're Democrats, doncha no... not that Rethugs are any better. George Carlin: "It's a great big club, and you ain't in it."
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