Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

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viking60
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Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby viking60 » 24 Mar 2010, 15:37

Will Microsoft ever buy Novell or is it not necessary anymore?
Is SUSE already infected with so much of it that some of it already has found, or will find, it's way upstreams to the Kernel?
Will the kernel and GPL be crippled by Microsoft?
Or will Microsoft need to buy Novel to make it real effective?
This horror story is not that far fetched.
I think of it as a realistic scenario.

It is a undisputeable fact that Microsoft is FUDing Linux and the users whenever they can. Steve Ballmer went so far as to say that everyone who uses Linux has an unbalanced liability sheet and that Microsoft should be compensated for their intellectual property.
And yet they have delivered some 20000 lines of code for drivers to the Linux kernel:

Today, in a break from the ordinary, Microsoft released 20,000 lines of device driver code to the Linux community. The code, which includes three Linux device drivers, has been submitted to the Linux kernel community for inclusion in the Linux tree. The drivers will be available to the Linux community and customers alike, and will enhance the performance of the Linux operating system when virtualized on Windows Server 2008 Hyper-V or Windows Server 2008 R2 Hyper-V.

What do you think?
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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby Maryyy » 24 Mar 2010, 16:52

Viking, this is very old. The code got rejected quite some time ago, as it violated the GPL. This also nicely shows that it's practically impossible to infect kernel with stuff. There is just too many people who will notice and only very trusted people can become subsystem maintainers. Don't worry about it, because fortunately your described scenario is extremely unlikely to happen. :D

Aaah, and hi people. Sort of rebel pack here? Just kidding, nice to see some long lost nicks again. ;)

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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby viking60 » 24 Mar 2010, 17:36

:D HI and welcome! Actually clumsy break in attempts to the kernel have been made. As Linus talks about here. And Microsoft has not bought Novel yet (not old -see?) :D
But it has been discovered and the system seems reliable - so far. Please reasure me more ;) Microsoft claim they have infected it already. Is there any spesification of the code in question yet?
And if so; are mathematical algorithms really patentable? Even in the US?
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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby Maryyy » 24 Mar 2010, 18:42

Everything that goes in the kernel is in the form of source. MS initial Hyper-V got rejected namely because of the fact that it contained some blobs, for which there was no source of course.

MS can claim anything. :D How many times they claimed various stuff. It's part of their dirty practices and poor real MS coders have to do what they're told. They need money and losing job in MS is not an option for many of them. But it was necessary for Valve founder, who was initially MS employee, complaining about code quality and other stuff MS didn't want to hear so he just packed himself and left. Thx to that, we could play HL, HL2 etc. Great!
Let MS say what they want. There is so many people who can notice malicious code that the chance is just small. I guess there will always be some attempts, but that's understandable. Worms are everywhere. :D

And Novell? Well, yes MS haven't bought them yet, but even if so, it means they wanted it, or that the initial patent deal was the cause, who knows. In any case, it's one distro and a few kernel hackers lost. Not a biggie. ;)

P.S. I'll watch the video later, I have something else now.

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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby dedanna1029 » 24 Mar 2010, 20:00

{{{{{{{Maryyy}}}}}}}}

Welcome! It's great to see you again! :)
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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby viking60 » 24 Mar 2010, 20:07

Maryyy wrote:Let MS say what they want. There is so many people who can notice malicious code that the chance is just small. I guess there will always be some attempts, but that's understandable.

Yes Linus pretty much confirms that.

Maryyy wrote:And Novell? Well, yes MS haven't bought them yet, but even if so, it means they wanted it, or that the initial patent deal was the cause, who knows. In any case, it's one distro and a few kernel hackers lost. Not a biggie. ;)

I guess I'll never get why Novel paid Microsoft. They probably gave the big bully the lunch money, to be left alone. So the FUD seems to work nicely for MS. Maybe that is all it takes?
I truly hope MS will achieve nothing in their war against Linux and Open source, but they have been fairly successful so far. :roll:
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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby Maryyy » 24 Mar 2010, 22:48

@Kim: Thx :) I was given one almost irresistible invitation, you know that kind of stuff you can't refuse. ;)

@Viking: Sorry, I still haven't seen the video, I just finished something and I go to sleep in a while. I promise to take a look tomorrow. :)

What I think about all the MS vs Linux matter in a nutshell.
Let's say some code in kernel really violates patents, although not so likely, again many people involved to discover it, but it can slip. Some patents are just horrible jokes that even hardcore coders may not recognize them. But how long it is since MS declared that Linux kernel violates certain number of patents (how can they possibly know that in the first place?), but you see, nothing happened. Reason - MS is full of false declarations and tactics that stink, to say the least (I'm talking about the lawyers and marketing apes being on MS payroll, not about common employers, these mostly obey to have their jobs). They are actually afraid of the patent war that would come, because FSF has been collecting patents against MS for some time and they have them. Plus they are also collecting evidence to invalidate particular MS patents, because, well, they are invalid. :D That's why all this FUD from MS, the only thing they are capable of using if the power of money can't be applied instead. So, be calm, Linux can't be crushed by MS like this.

Then the malicious code. Just what I wrote. Too many people see the core, it's likely the every attempt will be discovered, sooner or later. Also, as in normal life, when there is a problem of some kind, something unexpected, the ones affected by those circumstances (kernel hackers) will automatically be more aware of such problems' existence, hence even smaller chance in the future.

Also GPL. I can't imagine MS somehow killing GPL, I think it's technically impossible, no money can help MS to achieve this. It's a proper license, like any other, let's say proprietary one. Legally speaking, I don't think there is a difference. If something like that was about to happen, I swear to stop using computer at once, with no exception. :|

So, let's try to be more positive, it'll surely reflect the same way back on us. ;)

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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby viking60 » 25 Mar 2010, 00:53

Maryyy wrote:@Kim: Thx :) I was given one almost irresistible invitation, you know that kind of stuff you can't refuse. ;)

:D Yupp I can imagine - ROTFLMAO
Maryyy wrote:@Viking: Sorry, I still haven't seen the video, I just finished something and I go to sleep in a while. I promise to take a look tomorrow. :)

Oh It is nothing vital regarding security But it is an interesting speech about the Kernel and I learned something from it. But Get a glass of good red wine (Chianti!) and have a Carpachio. Lean back and enjoy - It is that long:)
Maryyy wrote:So, be calm, Linux can't be crushed by MS like this.

Then the malicious code. Just what I wrote. Too many people see the core, it's likely the every attempt will be discovered, sooner or later. Also, as in normal life, when there is a problem of some kind, something unexpected, the ones affected by those circumstances (kernel hackers) will automatically be more aware of such problems' existence, hence even smaller chance in the future.

Also GPL. I can't imagine MS somehow killing GPL, I think it's technically impossible, no money can help MS to achieve this. It's a proper license, like any other, let's say proprietary one. Legally speaking, I don't think there is a difference. If something like that was about to happen, I swear to stop using computer at once, with no exception. :|

So, let's try to be more positive, it'll surely reflect the same way back on us. ;)

Ok Thanks for calming me down. I would hate to go back to the old chess board. I actually think MS has nothing what so ever. And that is a fair assumption because they have never presented the code that is violating (but Novel did pay the extortion money).
Do you think Red Hat an IBM with friends could offer MS to pay extortion money to Linux? I mean the risk must be humongus for Microsoft but not the customers, because the software has to be opened.
The customers would not have to pay for it. Ah what a lovely thought.
A good game of tennis really brings out the best in me. :D
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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby dedanna1029 » 25 Mar 2010, 02:08

viking60 wrote:
Maryyy wrote:@Kim: Thx :) I was given one almost irresistible invitation, you know that kind of stuff you can't refuse. ;)

:D Yupp I can imagine - ROTFLMAO

I don't know, and don't care what happened. I'm just glad you're here, Maryyy. It's been a long time. Have missed you a lot. Whatever force brought you here, I'm very grateful.
I'd rather be a free person who fears terrorists, than be a "safe" person who fears the government.
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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby viking60 » 25 Mar 2010, 17:24

Brilliant work dedanna keep making offers they can't refuse - I like your style.
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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby Maryyy » 26 Mar 2010, 20:31

Hehe. Dedanna is innocent in this. It was someone else. ;)

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Re: Is Microsoft putting patent-laden code into Linux?

Postby dedanna1029 » 26 Mar 2010, 20:45

That's why I said I didn't know or care who did it. I'm just very glad they did. :)
I'd rather be a free person who fears terrorists, than be a "safe" person who fears the government.
No gods, no masters.
"A druid is by nature anarchistic, that is, submits to no one."
http://uk.druidcollege.org/faqs.html


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