Richard Stallmans baby

[viking60]

http://www.gnewsense.org/static/homepage/

[dedanna1029]

I have a friend in Michigan who LOVES gNewSense... I downloaded it myself. Thinking of giving it a try.

(Mr. sudoaptgetmoo, where are ya, anyway?)

[rolf]

Richard Stallmans baby

The FSF provides hardware and related support to the project. They approached the project after the 0.85 release.

From all the training videos, Maury Povitch paternity tests, and other information I've gleaned, "ownership" for a baby is something that is established some time before "0.85 release"

Seriously, what is exciting about Linux, the phenomenon, is the philosophy of freedom that has driven it's success in having such a great international impact at all levels of government, commerce, and individual use.

Neither Debian nor Ubuntu are fully free. Ubuntu installs non-free software by default. Debian provides non-free software through its repositories and includes non-free kernel drivers. We were also the first distribution to remove GLX^, which Debian had ignored for years.

See 1 2

^GLX is needed for hardware-accelerated 3d graphics in X. Recompiling X, and removing OpenGL, are required due to the non-free SGI Free B license.
(GLX was re-introduced upon completion of a license change in the beginning of 2009, thanks to the work of a large community.)

I don't pretend to grasp all the legal angles and nuance. However, this type of language reminds me of the continuing saga of patents, lawsuits, licensing (Oracle, anyone? 3, 4).^ To me, the most vital aspect of Linux has always been freedom and that must be protected in order for there to be any benefit at any level, including for me. From what little I have seen, Stallman has been at the core of protecting this freedom and the influence on society it empowers, from the beginning. After more than 10 years of seeing, largely, M$ "luser" transplants haranguing under|un-paid Linux developers to give them software w/o regard to the underpinning philosophical significance, who come only because they get a near-Windows experience w/o paying, who demand that it be more Windows-like, who come to impress their "luser" friends with the geekiness of installing something different, whose idea of contributing is, "My p**sy hurts, give me my free software!" and braying how they have brought more of their "luser" friends to make the same demands of the community, after more than 10 years of watching grandstanding trolls like Wobo and aapgorilla consume developer energies with self-aggrandizing contentiousness on cooker, it is heartening to see that work to protect the soul of Linux is ongoing.

^ An aside: My brother, a video producer who had occasion to meet Larry Ellison in the course of his work, found him to be quite the demanding, unpleasant megalomaniac. Go figure

[dedanna1029]

After more than 10 years of seeing, largely, M$ "luser" transplants haranguing under|un-paid Linux developers to give them software w/o regard to the underpinning philosophical significance, who come only because they get a near-Windows experience w/o paying, who demand that it be more Windows-like, who come to impress their "luser" friends with the geekiness of installing something different, whose idea of contributing is, "My p**sy hurts, give me my free software!" and braying how they have brought more of their "luser" friends to make the same demands of the community,

Now that I can agree with. I hate how Linux is just becoming another "Windows", and hate how a lot of the fanbois use the community in that way.

However,

after more than 10 years of watching grandstanding trolls like Wobo and aapgorilla consume developer energies with self-aggrandizing contentiousness on cooker.

I haven't seen much of this myself, could be because I quit following cooker ages ago. I realize wobo can be a bit of an egoist, but also think that both of them are as they are because they care about the distribution.

Would you, since I haven't seen it lately myself on cooker, purely admittedly because I haven't had the interest to look, please send a couple of examples of what you're talking about there? Thanks. In all respects, I consider medo to be the most extreme of what you talk about here. Dude thinks he's so great, he can talk over 10 and 15 year members of the mdv forum, and contributors to Mandriva, who know a helluva lot more than he does, from sheer experience (he's done this to you as well, I noticed, also to me), out of his "I know everything" egotistical "look at me" zeal (he had only been around since 2007). What gets me about that, is everyone is so into wanting to be too "nice", but only to the people they want, that no one puts him in his place.

[rolf]

please send a couple of examples of what you're talking about there?

No. However politely various developers point out where they are wrong, they both persist in bringing noise. It is my perception, one that has, also, been expressed by developers, that wobo has an agenda in which he, it seems to me, derives satisfaction for his bruised ego by criticizing Mandriva and developers. Similarly, aapgorilla argues about providing non-free Adobe because "ubuntu does". It appears to me that he is happy for Mandriva's shortcomings, invoking that as proof of his importance. However, it is a matter of opinion and you have already vociferously come down on their side, so I won't waste energy trying to argue this with you.

FYI, as long as I have used Mandriva, it has included various files from The Linux Documentation Project, also available on the net, e.g. Canons of Conduct Of course, these are written more from a developer perspective. Nonetheless,

Avoid hyperbole and unsubstantiated claims at all costs. It's unprofessional and will result in unproductive discussions.

As opposed to,

Mandriva is finished IMO, the intemperate elevation of your personal gripes over the survival of one of the finest Linux distros, coupled with your authority as moderator, is inappropriate and creates a hostile atmosphere. Also,

# Focus on what Linux has to offer. There is no need to bash the competition. Linux is a good, solid product that stands on its own.
# Respect the use of other operating systems. While Linux is a wonderful platform, it does not meet everyone's needs.

Instead of

Failed News

During more than a decade of watching cooker and forums, I've come to have an appreciation for all the people who work to make the distribution happen. Perhaps, a distro-hopper will never have such an appreciation. (Tell you what. First one that gets borked from the updates, is the first one I take off my machine.) I've had real or imagined injuries at the hands of some Mandriva functionary or other but that is not at the top of my priorities. I would have objectivity in the moderation of forums and have differed with you over, for instance, OP having sole discretion whether thread is locked or deleted, whether your "style" should be associated with some quasi-official Mandriva position, which differing seemed sufficient justification for a betrayal of personal trust. I respect that you do a lot of work in your job and at this forum that brings good results but don't care to go round and round with you about these perceptions.

Raises personal issues publicly, warning issued ~Moderator

[dedanna1029]

Question, did you vote on the Failed News poll? If you have an objection to it, we'd be more than happy to look at it.

As well the other things too. rolf I was asking you to cite these things because I am open to them. I wanted to know what they were up to. It has nothing to do with "sides" - it has to do with information.

Last thing: Also, if you have personal trust issues, you can feel free to bring them up in P.M. - I will look at it with an open mind.

I do realize what a bitch I can be.

[rolf]

don't care to go round and round

[dedanna1029]

Okay then what I had originally come in for this time around, is to call you out on that. I offered to listen. Personal issues should not be brought out publicly, and I'm hoping that we can all agree to that, but I did offer a private means of doing so.

If you think I do so horribly with this forum, then by all means, bring it up with viking60 - I'm sure he'd be more than happy to appease your highness. ***********************************************

I also seem to remember a time when I said I wasn't going to go 'round and 'round with you either, and you persisted. Is this what's good for the goose is not good for the gander, or what?

If you don't like what you see here, do something about it, or don't bring it up. You have every means and forum at your disposal to do so; P.M., email, what-have-you. All one has to do is open up their mouse and keyboard.

Guess it's not worth it though is it.

I'm done here. ***************************************, to acting like you're the cock of the walk here, I'm done. I've tried very hard to keep the peace with you. No more. Might not hurt you to realize that opinions go both ways, not just yours.
*Flaming rule effectuated

[viking60]

Oh boy we need to calm down here:
Dedanna do not use material from PM's and mails here. They are private and must be kept private for all members on every topic. Especially if you have asked for them. You know I am fuzzy about privacy - even if we do not always agree on that subject.

What I see here is constructive critique with arguments. Feel free to disagree with arguments. I have not seen any personal issues here before the last post. (I might have missed something so Ill read it again).
Personal issues outside this forum may remain there.

[dedanna1029]

I was not bringing up anything I hadn't seen here on the forum. There was no p.m. or email in that post. It was references and inferences that were made right here, publicly.

I can cite them to you in p.m. if you'd like. It was just my turn to retaliate on them. I'm tired of it. The link I gave above was only for people to P.M. you. Try it - it will open a blank P.M. to you. The only thing I was saying is they are a means that people can use.

[viking60]

Ok I might have gotten it wrong -sorry! The calming down bit still stands though

[rolf]

Okay then what I had originally come in for this time around, is to call you out on that. I offered to listen. Personal issues should not be brought out publicly, and I'm hoping that we can all agree to that, but I did offer a private means of doing so.

If you think I do so horribly with this forum, then by all means, bring it up with viking60 - I'm sure he'd be more than happy to appease your highness. Maybe your whines of "what a slut I am" will work on him.

I also seem to remember a time when I said I wasn't going to go 'round and 'round with you either, and you persisted. Is this what's good for the goose is not good for the gander, or what?

If you don't like what you see here, do something about it, or don't bring it up. You have every means and forum at your disposal to do so; P.M., email, what-have-you. All one has to do is open up their mouse and keyboard.

Guess it's not worth it though is it.

I'm done here. From your incessant name-calling at me, to acting like you're the cock of the walk here, I'm done. I've tried very hard to keep the peace with you. No more. Might not hurt you to realize that opinions go both ways, not just yours.

I was not bringing up anything I hadn't seen here on the forum. There was no p.m. or email in that post. It was references and inferences that were made right here, publicly.

I can cite them to you in p.m. if you'd like. It was just my turn to retaliate on them. I'm tired of it. The link I gave above was only for people to P.M. you. Try it - it will open a blank P.M. to you. The only thing I was saying is they are a means that people can use.

If you don't like what you see here, do something about it, or don't bring it up. You have every means and forum at your disposal to do so; P.M., email, what-have-you. All one has to do is open up their mouse and keyboard.

I opened up my keyboard and posted, with logic, reason, quotes, and links, some of my issues in my second post of this thread. Why did you not respond to those? How can you deny that?

I'm sure he'd be more than happy to appease your highness. Maybe your whines of "what a slut I am" will work on him.

I was not bringing up anything I hadn't seen here on the forum. There was no p.m. or email in that post. It was references and inferences that were made right here, publicly.

I can cite them to you in p.m. if you'd like. It was just my turn to retaliate on them. I'm tired of it.

From your incessant name-calling at me, to acting like you're the cock of the walk here, I'm done.

Where? Where is this "incessant name-calling"? Where are my "whines of "what a slut [you are]" "? Show us. Show us your justification "to retaliate on them."

You are a liar, a slanderer, and a hypocrite. This is not name-calling, as you did to me with " your highness, cock of the walk..." This is a statement of fact that is proven by your own foul words. Or, will you show us, Germ?